Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Wednesday, 25 June 2008 12:10

Dear onyourtoes

As usual you deliberately twist whatever I  (and people with my views) say to fulfill your own agenda. I did not say and have never said that everything the BDC, WDC say and do is wrong and that the IDSF is right. I have consistently said that both sides have been wrong in many ways. I have also said (consistently) that what is needed, is for both sides of this ridiculous attempt to outdo each other, to stop it and get talking.

As for the BDC (aka teaching societies) this is a different matter and relates to Britain only. And yes, I do blame the BDC for most of the problems we have had and continue to have in this country. And I am not alone in thinking this way. But that is a completely separate discussion, which I will be very happy to do so again.

It seems to me that it is your side (and I am on neither side as I have repeatedly said) that is continually attacking whatever the IDSF do. What is the WDC doing to foster better relations? What's the IDSF doing?

As for the IPDSC. Have you and anyone else really thought about why this body was created. To attack it's current members accusing them of self aggrandisement as some here have done in the past is no answer. I suupport the IPDSC because it share a common vision with me. No other reason. I couldn't care less about the people involved. What matters to ME is that DanceSport becomes prosperous and fully accepted as a sport not some strange performing art which I believe is the direction the WDC wants to go.

If I support the IDSF I do so not because of what they do but because they share a similar vision for Dance Sport. The WDC has a different vision which I do not support.

As for hiding anything, I found the so-called banning statement easily. It wasn't hidden - just moved from the front page. Seek and you shall find.

But can I remind you of one very simple fact - while I dislike intensely any attempt to ban anyone from dancing anywhere, if the IDSF feels they need to do this then it is for them to decide. It is is for others to hopefully persuade otherwise. Simply constantly attacking all and sundry without coming up with ideas to solve does no one any good.

If you really believe that the IDSF is wrong (and you have some influence which I suspect you do - I don't) then use it.

The constant tit for tat argument going on here is silly and I refuse to get involved anymore. I am interested in 2 things - creating unity and seeing my sport develop and prosper both at home and worldwide and with one commonly agreed vision.

The IDSF has a vision of one world governing body. I agree. The WDC can get involved. If it doesn't want to, so be it. We shall see who comes out on top.

Incidentally, your attack on Martyn was completely disgraceful. He was simply demonstrating what couldand probably will happen in our world as has happened in his other sport. The process is extremely similar and to try and pretend otherwise is at best foolhardy. If you want to read the discussion then it is easy to find. Just visit the EADA forum where you will find a great many people discussing many matters rationally and in a friendly manner without the carping and nastiness that appears prevalent in this forum.

It might just open your professional eyes to what British amateurs are saying. You might even learn a bit.

Regards

Steve

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Thursday, 26 June 2008 16:51

Strauss says what a fair and balanced response by "onyourtoes"to Keggs usual personality attacks.We could do with you on the EADA site where his constant references to his master vision is killing what used to be a varied and interesting forum

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Thursday, 26 June 2008 22:11

Do you miss   tedious, long  and rather unexciting dialogue ( mastered in high -end English )   something you would wish onto  readers on the EADA site ?     Have they not suffered enough ? 

Why is it important to publickly attack one another,  why don't you have a private chat , and sling mud at each other  ?  Why not leave and "entertain" in EADA  as Mr. Strauss suggested. 

 Even better, start a new thread,  this is like beating a dead horse, over, and over, and over and over again. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Friday, 27 June 2008 10:05

@keggs

Of course your apology is accepted  and  I will very happily discus or debate issues with you. 

Unfortunately I must immediately disagree with you on a large part of the content of your letter. and I hope you will not be offended.

I cannot accept that the IDSF has a vision and the WDC do not .

I would sincerely like to learn on what basis you reached this conclusion.  Certainly the WDC has a vision and this  is not "controlling and ruling" over the Amateurs. I believe that the WDC vision is one for the good of dancing for Amateurs and Pro working together for mutual benefit a vision for Coaches to coach as they wish, for Adjudicatrs adjudicate wherever invited, that competitors are able to decide for themselves where the compete..

I cannot accept that the WDC has done nothing for dance/dancesport.and wonder how you formulated this opinion.  In recent years WDC is guided very much by its competitors and meeting their wishes plus specialised bodies who are concerned with the development of dance/dancesport.  These people  have no desire to be restrictive and backward looking (in point of fact many have beeen involved in expanding the boundaries of competitive performances and choreography). But they very correctly believe that certain technical aspects must be preserved as must the character of the dance and musicality.

Throw all this out of the window and there is no stucture for adjudicating except who wears the best costume, who is the best showman/woman, who is the most gymnastic or can create the maximum speed..  

One cannot claim that the WDC have done nothing and then when they do  write the WDC should not have launched at the appeal of Amateur competitors an Amateur League.  You yourself write about the "frustration" at the IDSF and this is simply ignored by them since they believe they have the power.  At least the WDC listened and gave hope.

I agree that the IDSF has with their "Opens" events etc  (a huge source of income for them)encouraged  many people to believe this is a great achievent of the IDSF. I would say "not so"  these events are promoted by individual organisers who pay money to IDSF simply to avoid their events being "unregistered" by the local organisation who are IDSF members  I doubt very much that in lets just say France or Germany or Eire there are thanks directly to what the IDSF has done more competitions than in England without any IDSF input.  In fact the majority of these events in England are promoted by members of the BDC/WDC. 

Many people credit IDSF for great rules.  A myth as IDSF rules only apply to IDSF Opens etc.  All other events the vast majority are danced under the rules of that country.

Many people  credit IDSF for "strictly Come Dancing" and its various formats around the world..  Not so IDSF might have "hi-jacked" the event but its origination was in England by the BBC and Professionals without any IDSF involvement.

I cannot agree unfortunately that it is the professional group who "dominate in Britain".  It is my understanding that there is cordial and mutual respect between the Amateurs and the Pros and they have a fairly good relationship and worki understanding.  Most Amateurs train with BDC members. However I must immediately say that in Britain there are some of the most talented coaches and choreographers in the world they have devoted almost their entire life to dance and it is their profession and sole source of income.  They mentor and nurture and develop their students and in all fairness one cannot expect  them to bow down and say to someone who has been dancing (not very well) for 2 years and has on average one lesson a week and has income from another source  "in dance you are my equal. and I will accept what you decide for me".

I am fully aware that many of the Amateurs in England are unhappy that their teaching opportunities are restricted as against many other countries and they blame the Professionals for this.  There is the possibilty however for Amateurs to teach with strict conditions. What is very true is that  every top Pro Coach  in England would not mind in the least if Amateurs taught because it would not affect them in any way at all. The BDC however must also take into account the wishes of the many thousands of other Professionals who are members and might suffer as a result,  You know the costs you face in maintaining your dance business and in certain areas they would be even higher.  Amateurs could thus greatly undercut because they have none of these expenses and it is not their sole income. 

Some seem to believe that allowing Amateurs to teach will make a huge difference and Britain will suddenly shoot up to become a major competitive dance power again.  I am sad to say that this is not going to happen.   

You menioned corrupt judging and this is something that is common in many countries.  The complaints were simply ignored.  Couples were being banned for taking lessons from certain coaches, couples were being banned for the great sin of exercising their right to compete.

Long established events were being banned for them. These dancers were apprealing to their coaches for assistance - should they have been simply ignored?

A huge majority of these people were pleading for the WDC to assist them.  The IDU was ressurected the IDSA came into being.  The WDC never at any time granted these associations membership of the WDC as  they desired.  However as the number of these competitors increased around  the world (and earlier I mentioned some of more extreme local organisations) it seems only logical that the WDC would eventually give them the opportunity to follow their love of dance/danceport..

Sorry to have gone on at such length.

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Friday, 27 June 2008 18:48

The New Comedy Hour

keggs:

@ onyourtoes.....I am sorry, apologies, I agree with you about XYZ  I offer Hughie-poos,  and say to you  A+B = C

onyourtoes: 

@  keggs...Of course I accept your humbling yourself and kissing my shadow, let me just say :      A+B= D  not C,   starts a novel,  digs out what was already discussed at no end as something of importance writes another page and then  another....

Keggs ( confused with all the verbiage) :  

@ onyourtoes  

 let me try to read and understand what all that    ! #$%@   stuff you wrote was all about,

but  before I do,  so that you know ,     of course I disagree with all that   !#$%@  stuff,    and promise to beat you to a pulp once I know what you wrote.  In fact I shall respond to every detail, find something wrong with it- that's easy,- and will beat you over your stubborn head with it.   Kissy-poos Keggs. 

The Forum Readers : 

" are these guys courting one another ?    Is this a beginning of a new wonderful relationship,  or,  is this an example of  the  typically British way of hating one another, careful not to hurt each others feelings, while digging deeper and deeper with the pick axe at each other  ?

 @ Foxtrot2

Ditto.    First  congratulations, your grammar is much improved,  second,  I agree that this public posturing  of Keggs and Onyourtoes is unnecessary in this Forum , and that  the two parties could go and argue elsewhere,  but  they  both probably look for audience and feel that they impress and  gain respect from the rest of us.  Who is  Us ?    Us -  he naive, the uninformed, the confused, us-the  seeking The Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth,  which we  may find it between the Kegg's and Onyourtoes lines.

May I propose the following  to Keggs and to Onyourtoes, respectfully or not   ?

  Go private ,  discuss your differences,  come to a consensus and then   return here and inform us in this forum of the conclusion in one or two paragraphs. No need  to bore the rest  with what you yourselves call petty "Tit for Tats".

I have nothing against one, or,  the other, but I come here to learn something new, and instead get stuck here for an hour reading, and trying to comprehend  lots of words,  to find that nothing new is said ,  and that I  just  waste part of my life.

Forum is for exchange of information, not for trying to outdo one another. Or do you wish for the Polkadancer's style of monopolizing and hijacking a forum ? Have you noticed how a few people join on ? And when some have you just brushed them off as if a garbage ?

I expect no response,  just come back when you come to a conclusion  worth reading. You both must think you are  very important and knowledgeable,  far smarter than the rest of us,  yet, it appears your organisations, you know o much about do not listen you, and you have no clout to change the minds of, and are ignored by  the other  side.

But, there is always some forum where you  try impress how  important you believe you are.